Talk:Darka and Slavko

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This article was nominated for deletion on 10 April 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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NPOV - "one of the most popular duos in Ukrainian diaspora and Ukraine."

Being a Ukarinian who listens to different styles of music a lot I have not heard of this "one of the most popular duos in Ukrainian diaspora and Ukraine." I have searched them on Google and "Дарка й Славко" returned 1330 results and "Darka and Slavko" just 7240. As a refernce I used anothe reasonably popular Ukrainian singer with a reasonably unusual name to avoid false positive counts in search results: "Ani Lorak" 2,540,000 results, "Ани Лорак" 8,710,000. So 1000 times more pages. Therefore I consider the claim as to popularity unforunded. I have looked at some of the results for this "duo" and it appears there is little good quality coverage of their activities a all - most pages just contain their name to attract search results with no actual information about them. Will be proposing this article for sletion as well.Oxy20 (talk) 20:38, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have reworded the offending phrase to a neutral one. As this is the only NPOV issue, I have deleted the NPOV tag.--Toddy1 (talk) 23:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is not the only issue. "Shall the future see no more common studio recordings, however, many hold "Darka & Slavko" and their music responsible for inspiring young generations to create, compose and challenge the past" Who are those "many" ? What evidence is there of that ? Oxy20 (talk) 23:51, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I note you toned it down to "a popular duet in Ukrainian diaspora and Ukraine." - what evidence exists for that? Based on my research they are not. In Ukrainian just over 1000 hits in Google - about the same I have several years after publishing just one scientific paper. I dispute that calling them even just "popular in Ukraine" is neutral as all evidence points to the fact that they are hardly known in Ukraine. Oxy20 (talk) 00:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you think that one or two statements in an article either need citations or are dubious, then I suggest that you stick {{fact}} and {{dubious}} tags against them. This is more helpful than an NPOV tag for the whole article. NPOV tags are intended for articles with more serious problems than one of two statements.--Toddy1 (talk) 06:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article Proposed for Deletion

Did some more work. Compared this "one of the most popular duos in Ukrainian diaspora and Ukraine" to just known (as opposed to well known) ukrainian singers. Choosing a duo that got 4th place in an X-factor like show in Ukraine in late 2009 early 2010. "Брати Борисенки" 71200 results, "Брати Борисенко" 53200 results, "Братья Борисенки" 56800 , "Братья Борисенко" 55800, "Borisenko Brothers" 31,400 and "Brothers Borisenko" 16,300 - so about 300,000 results across the two forms of writing their surnames in Russian and Ukrainian and two forms in English. They do not have their own En.Wiki page but are mentioned on the following page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrika_Zirok . So the Duo mentioned in the article produced about 30 times fewer hits on google then even fringe Ukrainian singers. I believe they fail to meet Notability criteria and the page is an attempt to promote them. I believe the page should be deleted.Oxy20 (talk) 21:04, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Single Source (at most)

This article is a translation of exactly the same article shown in external links (http://www.ivasyuk.org.ua/names.php?l=uk&p=darka_slavko). That article is located on the memorial site of a Notable Ukrainian Composer, however the composer died well before the Band in question, according to the article, came into existence so could not have endorsed them in any way. Also it is not clear who owns and maitains that memorial sites. Four other links I could not open and the last one is just a brief mention of the group.

So this article is a translation of a single source and I would question whether the source is reputable. Oxy20 (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious Statements - Need for Reliable sources

This whole article is essentially a translation of one of the references: http://www.ivasyuk.org.ua/names.php?l=uk&p=darka_slavko.

Much of what is in the article is not supported by any other references . Other references mainly provide trivial coverage of the group, advertising and one instance of detailed review of their first album that could be advertising as at the end mentions where to send a cheque to buy a recording.

There is no evidence as to who wrote the article on that site as the author is not mentioned, there is no evidence as to who owns that site. That site asserts copyright over material published on it whic states if something is taken from it that that site must be referred to (and to me that means that if Wikipedia article is a translation of the page on that site – then reference to the site must be very prominent. What this means is that the source fails reliability test as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable_sources

The article covers lots of personal life details – for which no reliable references exist.

The article is not self consistent – mentions four albums but then talks just about three. Now if there were, say, 20 albums and the article mentioned only the 5 most important – that would not seem strange. But with for albums being mentioned and then 3 described at some length and one is not mentioned – that is quite dubious.

Some claims as to popularity and inspirational effect on others are also quite ambitious and would require quite reliable multiple sources. Overall the author needs to be aware that Wikipedia is not a place for original research. All non trivial statements MUST be supported with RELIABLE references. I have tried hard to search for reliable references that could back up the claims and could not find them. I hope the author will try as well or amend the article accordingly.

Please bear in mind this article is about living people. If I followed the policy I would have to delete much of it immediately. I am effectively bending the rules myself by not deleting. So please refernce to RELIABLE sources as soon as possible or delete any statements. Oxy20 (talk) 01:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also as much of the article is essentially a quote from one non-English source, and also because there is a potential dispute as to what non-English sources actually support there is also need to adhere to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources in the article. Oxy20 (talk) 01:43, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article does adhere to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources.--Toddy1 (talk) 03:42, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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