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Archives

Archive #1 - His picture, the lead debate

The bio section for the 2000s is poorly written and completely out of order. It covers plot elements of Secret Invasion before Civil War. Can some Avengers fan clean this up? I'm not a Marvel historian, lol. But I do know the major events in that decade go Avengers Disassembled, New Avengers, Civil War, Initiative, and then Secret Invasion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.223.179 (talk) 06:42, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pym's minimum size is not limited to half an inch. During two separate Initiative volumes it was mentioned that he dodged certain death by shrinking down to a sub-atomic level. This may have been Hank's skrull doppleganger, but if Hank hadn't been capable of such shrinking then him doing so would have alerted someone of his false identity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.144.223 (talk) 04:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was the skrull, not Pym.142.162.106.95 (talk) 04:19, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given the forthcoming change in i.d. for Hank (and presumably the retirement of the Yellowjacket i.d.), is it time to consider a new picture in the infobox? I like the excerpt from SI: Requiem that has been added to the body of the article, good frontal shot that captures the new design much better than the MA #21 cover. Thoughts?68.248.62.130 (talk) 01:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am all for swapping the pictures.-- Phoenix₇₄₁(Talk Page) 04:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No - we try and avoid new-for-the-sake-of-new images and they also need to conform to:WP:CMC/EG#Superhero box images.

Personally I thought the Yellowjacket image was unwise but no other good alternative presented itself. I'd prefer:

* Him as Ant-Man, as this is one of his longest running identities.

* A "Many faces of Hank Pym"-style image - this is a long shot and I'd go with the first.

I'll have a look around and see if anything presents itself. (Emperor (talk) 04:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Is Ant Man really one of his longest running identities? Other than the occasional one-shot use of the gear, Pym abandoned this guise back in the 60's. Yellowjacket would be his longest running guise. I suppose it depends how committed Marvel are to building him up as the new Wasp and if they stick with it or not. If they make the full court press on this the way Slott is describing, then we should consider either changing or at minimum setting up a Wasp (comics) disambig page with both Pym and Van Dyne links. n208.54.7.181 (talk) 20:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How about this? From Comics 101. We'd need to find the right issue (Avengers #228-230?)and get a good big clean scan (might be on the DVD-ROM) so we can snip out the central panel but I don't think you can do better than that. (Emperor (talk) 05:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

The problems there are it "just head shots" of the old and zip for the new.

To be honest, this may be one of those cases where "none" in the infobox may have to happen. All four of the "old" costumes are roughly equal when looking for an "iconic" costumed identity for Pym. It more or less comes down to personal preference how to rank them. And the new one is just that - new which is by default less notable than the other four. Which leaves all five as good candidates for spot images in the article.

Another option would be to promote File:Pym-civilian.png, or a better version of a like image, to the 'box. I'd prefer this since it does present an image for the 'box, follows the titling of the article, and sidesteps the "new costume"/"most notable costume" debate.

- J Greb (talk) 12:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would accept that as a good compromise, although there must be a better Pym civilian picture out there that we could use. Perhaps from an older WCA cover when he wasn't using a costure of from the recent Beyond! series?208.54.7.181 (talk) 20:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed... the current one is a bit... constipated?

The best I can find on a quick look is [1][2] on Comic Vine. Unfortunately it doesn't have anything about the original comic. - J Greb (talk) 23:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well that is a guideline, it is a complicated situation (hence the discussion) and whatever we do with the main image it seems we'll want say an image for the main aliases in the article, so we could make an exception here. The advantage of the image I proposed is that it includes Ant-Man, Giant Man, Goliath and Yellowjacket as well as Pym and the speech he gives is a bit of a classic (recently reworked and said by Skrull Pym) so there is a good case for using this image as the infobox image. (Emperor (talk) 05:32, 10 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

There are a few quibbling bits there...

• NFC would hold that if an image featuring the 5 looks is used, then additional images doing the same for one or more of the looks is redundant. There's also a point made, though specifically aimed at lists but applicable to character costume changes, that if an image covers "most" of the aspects of a cast, additional images to "fill in the blanks" are redundant as well. This could hamper the inclusion of an image of the new Wasp costume.
• Dialogue is something that does not need an image for support. The passage can be quoted and cited if it's needed in a relevant section of the article.The image is going to wind up small enough that the text is likely going to be illegible anyway.

I'd rather avoid the NFC issues by sticking to a single version in the infobox image that can be pointed to meeting the CMC infobox guides. That allows for like images to be used for the other 5 looks in the text of the article. - J Greb (talk) 06:15, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK then I think civilian Pym in a lab coat seems the best option. I am not to enamoured of the example we already have but I am sure there are plenty of others like [3] and I'm sure there are plenty of aaternatives so if anyone finds one throw it into the mix. (Emperor (talk) 21:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I move the Successors to tables as it was there was a lot of repetitiveness, ie. so and so as Ant-Man followed up with so and so as Ant-Man, etc. Some unregistered editor feld it was too bulky and that I should discuss it on the talk page. Spshu (talk) 20:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/Style guidance#Succession boxes and Roman numerals, the use of succession boxes is discouraged.

And looking at the text of the section, "Successors" is a misnomer: It covers other characters that Marvel has put forward using the same plot element to explain how they change size, not just those that took the particles and a variation of one of Pym's codenames. - J Greb (talk) 00:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are specific sucessor boxes like on the first (debatable) Chief Justicar of England, Roger of Salisbury, which I believe the guidlines indicates. I will try bullet points then if tables are a problem. Atlas was actually Goliath previously and by just reversing you added back that error. Also, there is no indication on Man-Eaters article that she recieve any power related to the Pym Particles, which your reversion adds back too. Spshu (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A few fair points, but the list still left out Wasp and Stature. I've added those two back in and re-ordered the list by chronological first appearance of the characters usingthe particles.

Couple of things though...

The header is still a problem. Maybe "Spread of the particles" or some such.

And the list could use additional bulleting. Something along the lines of:

• Janet Van Dyne
  • As the Wasp from:
    • From Tales to Astonish #44 (June 1963) through Secret Invasion #8 (January 2009).
• Clint Barton
  • As Goliath from:
    • The Avengers #63 (April 1969) through The Avengers #97 (March 1972)
    • West Coast Avengers #26 (November 1987)
    • The Avengers #345 (March 1992) through Captain America #401 (June 1992).
• Bill Foster
  • As Black Goliath from:
    • Power Man #24 (April 1975) through The Defenders #65 (November 1978)
  • As Giant-Man from:
    • Marvel-Two-In-One #55 (September 1979) through The Avengers #381 (December 1994)
  • As Goliath from:
    • Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #2 (January 2006) through Civil War #4 (October 2006).
• Scott Lang
  • As Ant-Man from:
    • Marvel Premiere #47 (April 1979) through The Avengers #500 (September 2004).
• Erik Josten
  • As Goliath from:
    • The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #17 (1983) through Thunderbolts #1 (April 1997)
  • As Atlas from:
    • Thunderbolts #1 on.
• Rita DeMara
  • As Yellowjacket from:
    • The Avengers #264 (February 1986) through Force Works #17 (November 1995)
• Cassie Lang
  • As Stature from:
    • Young Avengers #6 (September 2005) on.
• Eric O'Grady
  • As Ant-Man from:
    • The Irredeemable Ant-Man #1 (September 2006) on.
• Tom Foster
  • As Goliath from:
    • Black Panther vol. 3 #23 (February 2007) on.

- J Greb (talk) 01:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderman and Vision also have powers relating from Pym Particles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.121.212.13 (talk) 15:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored "Publication history", which had essentially been cut down and then absorbed into what had been "Fictional character biography", which was then placed under the PH subheads. WikiProject Comics MOS specified that PH and FCB are separate sections. One editor has unilaterally merged them in some articles, but there is no consensus for this; indeed, the WikiProjects Style Guidance talk page shows only one editor suggesting this, and the remainder discussing changes in naming conventions while retaining the section-break status quo. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The fictional character biography needs adjusting in that guidelines say this section is written in-universe. Names of publications and such should be in footnotes only. -- Tenebrae (talk) 23:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Articles can't link to sections in text unless there is a header. This is done so that, for example, an article on the Ultimates can link directly to the intended version, through the link Hank_Pym#Ultimate_Marvel, which will link directly to the section in the article about Ultimate Giant Man. Without this, readers have to search through the text for the information about the intended version.

Every other Marvel character's article is ordered and sectioned just like this, just look at the articles on:

Aunt May

Ben Reilly

Betty Ross

Black Cat

Blob

Brother Voodoo

Carnage

Doctor Druid

Elektra

Flash Thompson

Forge

Galactus

Howard the Duck

Hulkling

Invisible Woman

Jubilee

Kraven

Lizard

Luke Cage

Mac Gargan

Mole Man

Moon Knight

Namor

Namora

Nitro

Owl

Psylocke

Quicksilver

She Hulk

Super Skrull

U.S. Agent

Vision

Wasp

Werewolf by Night

Wiccan

X-23

Yellow Jacket

The list goes on and on, so why should this article be any different? Why go against a long-established, easy to understand organisational system, that every other article uses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikikaye (talk • contribs) 22:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. You need the headings to link to it from other articles. Dream Focus 18:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the character history section mention his first wife, Maria, who appears in Tales To Astonish #44? Or has she been retcon'd away? 108.7.213.217 (talk) 01:02, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article states that he can reach near microscopic to about 100 feet tall, however, at least in Avengers Academy, he's able to easily reach the microverse and then underspace (entire universes smaller than atomic size) and overspace (a universe all it's own where gods reside that is massively huger than our universe). When did he get these powers and their extents should probably be added to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.241.114 (talk) 20:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is just a notice that an article for Ant-Man is being incubated at Wikipedia:Article Incubator/Ant-Man (film) until such time that it is ready for inclusion in the mainspace. All are welcome to come help nurture the article's development there.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:34, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If other editors think the tag is still needed, obviously you should re-add it. Given the character's unusual complexity — at least five different identities, plus a long-running impostor, plus being a part of complicated events — I'm not sure we could trim the Fictional character biography any more, though perhaps someone else can make some cuts I can't readily see. The tag also presented a Catch-22: On the one hand it said additional sources were needed, but on the other, it said there were too many primary sources (i.e., the comics cited in the FCB). I think the article did an admirable job of citing all the various twists and turns of the character and that the cites here are needed. Anyway, that's my take on it. Other editors, please go in and improve things even more. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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That seems like information that should be included in the caption. Argento Surfer (talk) 19:26, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am removing the category "Fictional domestic abusers" from this article for the following reasons:

• There is nothing related to this in the article.
• Assuming that this is a reference to him hitting Janet in Avengers #213, this website shows that Peter Parker (Spider-Man), Reed Richards (Mister Fantastic), and Dinah Lake (Black Canary) have all had similar incidents with their spouses. Since none of their Wikipedia articles contain this category, I see no reason to single out Hank Pym.

-Thunderforge (talk) 01:30, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

it's an important part of his character, it's not with those other characters. DrBat (talk) 01:59, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Important how? The article doesn't say anything about it, so I don't see how it could be considered important. -Thunderforge (talk) 03:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

its talked about in the 1980s section. DrBat (talk) 03:43, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow I missed that, given that it doesn't explicitly say that there is domestic abuse (so ctrl+f didn't find it). I still don't see how it's central to his character (I vaguely recall that he was expelled from the Avengers more for being a jerk than for hitting his wife), but I won't argue it at this time. -Thunderforge (talk) 03:53, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Shooter was in charge at the time, and he refused to let things pass the way his predecessors did. Phoenix had to die for her crime, Stark descended into alcoholism thanks to all the social events he attended, Ghost Rider became truly evil, and when Hank slapped his wife thanks to a miscommunication between the artist and the writer, rather than have the panel redone, he shined a spotlight on it and destroyed the character's reputation for all time. The temporary psychosis that gave birth to the Yellowjacket identity (and got him married in the first place) now marked Pym as unstable. He was court martialed by Cap and discharged from the Avengers. He gave up the Yellowjacket identity and superheroing altogether, and it was decades before he returned to full superhero status again. But now he is officially bipolar, and his colleagues doubt his every decision. Thanks a heap, Shooter. Thetrellan (talk) 19:07, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Image deletion nominations for NFCC 8 and 3a.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 April 28. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]