Talk:List of survivors of Sobibor

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of survivors of Sobibor article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Poland Low‑importance

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Jewish history Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Lists Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Victims

Style.
	Male
	Female

List of Sobibor Victims
Name	Date of birth	Date of death	Age	Nationality	Faith	Notes
Mozes Jacobs^[1]	November 26, 1905	July 9, 1943	37 years, 225 days	Dutch		Gymnast. Participated at the 1928 Summer Olympics in Amsterdam.^[2]
Walter M. Poppert^[3]	March 26, 1914	October 30, 1943	29 years, 218 days	German		Husband of Gertrud Poppert née Schönborn. In 1943 he was foreman of the Waldkommando in the Sobibor Extermination camp.^[4]
Max van Dam^[5]^[6]	March 19, 1910	September 20, 1943	33 years, 185 days	Dutch		Art Painter.
Abraham de Oliveira^[2]	May 4, 1880	March 26, 1943	62 years, 326 days	Dutch		Gymnast.
Isidore Goudeket^[2]	August 1, 1883	July 9, 1943	59 years, 342 days	Dutch		Gymnast.
Anna Dresden-Polak^[2]	November 24, 1906	July 23, 1943	36 years, 241 days	Dutch	Jewish	Gymnast. Her husband Barend Dresden was killed at Auschwitz on November 30, 1944.
Eva Dresden^[7]	1936 or 1937	July 23, 1943	6 years	Dutch	Jewish	Daughter of Anna Dresden-Polak and Barend Dresden (killed at Auschwitz, November 30, 1944).
Jud Simons^[8]	August 20, 1904	March 3, 1943	38 years, 195 days	Dutch	Jewish	Gymnast.^[2]
Bernard Salomon Themans^[9]	April 5, 1909	March 3, 1943	33 years, 332 days	Dutch	Jewish	Husband of Judik Themans née Simons.
Sonja Themans^[10]	1937 or 1938	March 3, 1943	5 years	Dutch	Jewish	Daughter of Judik Themans née Simons and Bernard Themans.
Leon Themans^[11]	1939 or 1940	March 3, 1943	3 years	Dutch	Jewish	Son of Judik Themans née Simons and Bernard Themans.
Emanuel Querido	August 6, 1871	July 23, 1943	71 years, 320 days	Dutch	Jewish	Publisher. His wife was also killed at the camp at the same time.
Leo Smit^[12]^[13]	May 14, 1900	April 30, 1943	42 years, 351 days	Dutch	Jewish	Composer.
Michel Velleman	January 5, 1895	July 2, 1943	48 years, 178 days	Dutch	Jewish	Magician.
Helga Deen^[14]^[15]	April 6, 1925	July 16, 1943	18 years, 101 days	German	Jewish	Diarist. Her parents and brother were killed at the same time.
Else Feldmann^[16]	February 25, 1884	June 1942	57 or 58 years	Austrian	Jewish	Writer, playwright, poet, socialist journalist.
Jakob van Hoddis^[17]	May 16, 1887	c. April 30, 1942	54 years, 349 days	German	Jewish	Poet, generally regarded with writing the preliminary expressionist poem, inspiring countless poets.^[18] Mentally ill, transported to Sobibor along with the 500 patients and staff of his sanitorium on April 30, 1942, all of whom perished.
Han Hollander^[19]	October 5, 1886	July 9, 1943	56 years, 277 days	Dutch	Jewish	Journalist. First Dutch radio sports journalist.
Leentje Hollander-Smeer^[20]	October 6, 1886	July 9, 1943	56 years, 276 days	Dutch	Jewish	Wife of Han Hollander. Their daughter Froukje Esther Waterman-Hollander was killed at Auschwitz on February 28, 1943.
Elisabeth Kleerekoper^[21]	October 14, 1928	July 2, 1943	14 years, 261 days	Dutch		Daughter of Gerrit Kleerekoper and Kaatje Kleerekoper-
Gerrit Kleerekoper^[22]	February 15, 1897	July 2, 1943	46 years, 137 days	Dutch		Coach of the women's gymnastic team which won the gold medal at the 1928 Summer Olympics in Amsterdam.^[2]
Kaatje Kleerekoper-Ossedrijver^[23]	August 29, 1895	July 2, 1943	47 years, 307 days	Dutch		Spouse of Gerrit Kleerekoper
Abraham Kloot^[24]	July 28, 1902	July 2, 1943	40 years, 339 days	Dutch		Spouse of Helena Kloot née Nordheim
Helena Nordheim^[25]	August 1, 1903	July 2, 1943	39 years, 335 days	Dutch		Gymnast, member of the women's gymnastic team which won the gold medal at the 1928 Summer Olympics in Amsterdam.^[2]
Rebecca Kloot^[26]	April 12, 1933	July 2, 1943	10 years, 81 days	Dutch		Daughter of Helena Kloot née Nordheim and Abraham Kloot

Why is this on a Talk page? If I remember correctly a list like this used to be a on a regular article page. What happened? If there was some kind of split or move was there a reason why this list wasn't given its own page as well? Verso.Sciolto (talk) 08:38, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Article created with edited table at List of victims of Sobibor. Verso.Sciolto (talk) 16:25, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

^ Mozes Jacobs in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g Schaffer, Kay; Smith, Sidonie (2000). The Olympics at the Millennium: Power, Politics, and the Games. Rutgers University Press. pp. 60–62. ISBN 9780813528205.
^ Walter M. Poppert, in the German Federal Archives Memorial Book.
^ Schelvis, Jules. Vernietigingskamp Sobibor. De Bataafsche Leeuw. ISBN 9789067076296.
^ Scholtz, Wim, ed. (1986). Max van Dam, Joods Kunstenaar 1910-1943. Vereniging het Museum Winterswijk. ISBN 90-70560-07-0.
^ Max van Dam in Digital Monument to the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Taylor, Paul (2004). Jews and the Olympic Games. Sussex Academic Press. p. 107. ISBN 9781903900871.
^ Judik Themans née Simons in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Bernard Themans in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Sonja Themans in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Leon Themans in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ http://www.leosmit.nl/over_leosmit.html
^ Samama, L. (2006). Nederlandse muziek in de twintigste eeuw: voorspel tot een nieuwe dag (in Dutch). Amsterdam University Press. p. 149. ISBN 9789053568620.
^ "Shades of Anne Frank in Dutch prison camp diary." Sydney Morning Herald, 22 October 2004.
^ "Dutch uncover diary of Nazi camp". BBC News. 2004-10-20. Retrieved 2008-08-10.
^ Keepers of the Motherland: German Texts by Jewish Women Writers, Dagmar C.G. Lorenz. 1997.
^ History of Holocaust
^ Kundera, Ludvík. Expresionismus. p. 10. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |unused_data= (help)
^ Han Hollander on the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Leentje Hollander-Smeer on the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Elisabeth Kleerekoper in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Gerrit Kleerekoper in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Kaatje Kleerekoper née Ossedrijver in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Abraham Kloot in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Helena Kloot née Nordheim in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands
^ Helena Kloot in the Digital Monument of the Jewish Community in the Netherlands

Wrong Esther Raab

Currently, the chart links to the wrong Esther Raab. The correct Esther Raab (just died) is not the one in this article (died in '81). I would correct this but I'd probably bugger up the code. :) Would someone please correct this? Cheers,
— Berean Hunter (talk) 04:47, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Major problems with notability

Similar to unconfirmed list of perpetrators not notable individually, discussed at Talk:Trawniki men#Complete list, loosely remembered names of survivors picked up only from the first-party memoirs have no place in Wikipedia. A sea of redlinks have been de-linked for now as the minimum precaution because these entries do not exist and there's nothing to write about. See WP:LISTPEOPLE for more. Poeticbent talk 13:54, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of survivors of Sobibór. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://archive.is/20140331221827/http://yivo.org/index.php?aid=105&tid=117 to http://yivo.org/index.php?aid=105&tid=117

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:31, 2 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect details on entries

The link for Josef Cukierman goes to a person who committed suicide in 1941, when it says that this survivor died in 1963.

Moshe Hochman - born 1953? How is he a survivor of Sobibor?

Simjon Rosenfeld - date of death "Alive" yet it states age of death 96.

Philip Bialowitz - no age of death given, yet his wiki page says he was 90. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8308:23E:2F00:1FB:6E2F:CAAB:97E5 (talk) 12:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sobibór trial which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing death dates

Just leaving a note that I'm going to be using newspaper obituaries to cite death dates of recently deceased individuals. I'm not hugely happy about this, since obituaries tend to have numerous factual errors about survivors' lives. If you disagree with this choice, let's discuss. And if you're reading this in the future, when there might be print sources that give death dates for the last handful of survivors, please update the sources! Botterweg14 (talk) 13:33, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Turns out Cüppers et al (Fotos aus Sobibor) has accurate death dates for the last handful of survivors. Botterweg14 (talk) 20:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Categories:

Hidden category:

Noindexed pages