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Very few Jews from eastern Belarus were deported to Auschwitz. The subject of this article was very young, bordering on implausibly so, when he is said to have been involved with the resistance. No scholarly sources are cited, instead you use a religious website which is not reliable for anything but possibly interpretations of Judaism and Jewish customs. (t · c) buidhe 20:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've already added two other books as sources, he is not that well known but there are still some sources out there which I think are enough to stablish notability; obviously a jew person will have more jew sources and the reason why I used those two is because they are the most detailed I could find. I didn't find any scholary articles online other than a PhD dissertation. The Blue Rider 21:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also one of the two sources is The Forward which seems a pretty well stablish and reputable source. The Blue Rider 21:07, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Already removed Aish.com which can be indeed unreliable. The Blue Rider 21:08, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if the story is true, but the lack of mention in scholarly sources (there are a lot about partisan war in Belarus) doesn't improve the credibility of the account. I don't know what primary accounts that the other sources are based on but if he really blew up a building in Ovruch killing 200 Germans as you assert here, there would be expected to be mentions in German and Ukrainian sources. (t · c) buidhe 21:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source that I removed said there were 200 Germans officers, I changed to many instead of 200. I haven't looked into the German language much, but I did saw some German books about him which I plan to download. The Blue Rider 21:27, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True or not, there are quite some sources about him, some more detailed than others, but still sources. Whether to phrase this as folklore or as real might the actual question. The Blue Rider 21:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also saw one source with a different spelling so I assume he might be known by different names depending on the language. The Blue Rider 21:30, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, after researching more there are conflicting sources on whether his family was killed on the spot or sent to the concentration camp but the consensus seems to be that they were killed immediatly. The Blue Rider 15:39, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would recommend withdrawing the GAN, at present it would be a quick fail in my book . When you cite a book it's needed to provide page numbers for verifiability. What pages in the 1967 Suhl book can I find the information (t · c) buidhe 23:12, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is it a WP:GAFAIL?! Not having pages is not a reason to quickfail. You can find it on 262 to 267. The Blue Rider 23:28, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The general issue is that the article is presenting the story as a fact without sufficient corroboration. If the Suhl book was the first to print and the others simply repeat it, that's not inspiring confidence in the account given that Suhl is novelized and seems to lack any citations or references. I would agree that the story is notable, but at present there is not enough information to determine if it was true, exaggerated, or folklore as you suggest above ... (t · c) buidhe 23:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since all the sources are portraying it as true then our page should reflect that. It might be exaggerated or folklore but that would be a personal opinion of ours. The Blue Rider 02:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The primary source seems to be from a book, Motele, from Moshe Gildenman himself. The Blue Rider 15:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: Hi, are you aware of any such book? You have suggested that this narrative originates with a book containing a novelized account. I agree with everything you've said in this discussion. —Alalch E. 19:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean "any such book"? I say Suhl is novelized because based on the preview; both the style of prose and inner narrative of Motele are not typical for nonfiction. The latter of course is not possible to objectively determine from the historical record. (t · c) buidhe 05:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean a book written by Gildenman, titled Motele. —Alalch E. 09:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: I replied to The Blue Rider (who, BTW, can not continue this conversation because they have been indeffed) and pinged you in reference to what they wrote (... a book, Motele, from Moshe Gildenman himself). I found some information on this book:

• https://congressforjewishculture.org/people/5915/Gildenman-Moyshe-1898-August-10-1957 ("Motele der yunger partisan (Motele, the young partisan) (Paris, 1950), 197 pp.")
• https://revistas.uis.edu.co/index.php/revistacyp/article/download/12382/11504/83074 (quote: "The plot of the novel [this apparently refers to the chapters in Suhl] is based on the experiences of Motele Schlein, a talented violinist who joined Moshe Gildenman's partisans at age 12 after his family was murdered and indeed carried out a bombing at a restaurant frequented by German soldiers. In 1944, Schlein, then 14 years old, died in a skirmish with the German army. Gildenman published several accounts of partisans after the war, one of which is titled Motele der yunger partisan (Motele, the Young Partisan, Paris 1950) and openly focuses on Schlein's story. A connection to Suhl's novel seems obvious, but it has not yet been determined to what extent Suhl directly draws inspiration from Gildenman's narrative." The article notes that Suhl was an author of children's books, and further explains the use of the adventure genre tropes and techniques of attentuation of violence to make the content less disturbing)
  Noting that the part "A connection to Suhl's novel seems obvious, but it has not yet been determined to what extent Suhl directly draws inspiration from Gildenman's narrative" is strange because Suhl's book is a collection of stories credited to various authors, one of who is Misha Gildenman (his story "Diadia Misha (Uncle Misha) and His Partisans" divided into three chapters is on the pages 260–271, see ToC). There's more about that here: https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/djnews/djn.1975.06.06.001/4 ("Suhl's dramatic stories contain especially moving descriptions of heroism by children. An important article by Misha Gildenman tells about "Diadia Misha (Uncle Misha) and His Partisans: The Blowing Up of the Soldiers' Home." Appended to this article [in Suhl] is the following "Editor's Postscript:" ...)—Alalch E. 12:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are also books on Hebrew about him that are cited in his Hebrew Wikipedia correspondent but I wasn't able to locate most of them online. The Blue Rider 23:46, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The German army typically killed ~100 Soviet citizens in reprisal for each German killed. If several Germans were actually killed, that would be very noteworthy, as would be the massive reprisal. Why can't we find sources for this alleged event in the well studied soviet partisan war. The Soviet partisans killed more collaborators than germans, and their greatest success was disrupting rail infrastructure in attacks that caused no deaths. (t · c) buidhe 05:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]